For those who want to know and who have any intellectual curiosity whatsoever, the evidence is so overwhelming that the Qur'an is written not by an omniscient, merciful, wise, wonderful deity but by a very fallible man, that I've suddenly been overcome by a sense of overwhelming ennui. Or perhaps it's just a midlife crisis...
If you're reading this and you are a Muslim then I have a simple question that I'd like you ask yourself and to which I have never received a satisfactory answer. It is this:
Allah makes it plain that if you are a polytheist, an ancestor worshiper or an atheist, or anything other than a monotheist in the Abrahamic fold, you will go to Hell and suffer an eternity of unimaginable torment.
Your god thus condemns a very large proportion of his own creation to ever-lasting torture. And it matters not one jot to your god that these people might be good, kind, wonderfully selfless individuals who lead lives replete with good works and acts of generosity . A child-murderer who converts to Islam has his sins wiped clean and can go to paradise, however.
Do you feel happy worshipping such a deity? Don't you ever, just for one moment think there might be something wrong here? Or are you too busy selfishly scrambling to be let into paradise so you can have endless rivers of wine and beautiful maidens?
you will find the answer my friend, just you wait.
ReplyDeleteIf death is there then birth is there.
DeleteIf death is not there then there is no birth either.
If birth is there then there is death
If birth is not there then there is no death
Soul has no death , so no birth either. Suppose I am born in 1990 does not mean my soul is born in 1990. It was there even before in previous life. So God condemning some one eternally to hell is cruelty and injustice. So is sending some one eternally to heaven…Salvation is Self conciosuness.
Allah is an asshole
DeleteThis is supposed to convince me that Islam is a religion of peace, mercy, tolerance and forgiveness, is it?
ReplyDeleteIt never ceases to amaze me how a certain type of Muslim delights in the prospect of non-believers "getting theirs" in the hereafter.
Frankly I can't imagine anything worse than an eternity in paradise in the company of such vicious bigots.
i am a born muslim but i agree with you spinoza. there are too many ambiguities in islam. as a matter of fact what i believe now is that all religions suck, no religion in god send. every religion was started by a single person with certain extraordinary qualities including, charismatism, excellent leadership skills and tactics to mesmerize masses. in my opinion it is not mandatory to follow a religion in order to lead you life, the only thing necessary is to have money. i'm not sure if there is a god out there, even if he is out there, he is cruel to at least 80 percent of population of the world. but he definitely favors 20 percent who are always rich, successful, fortunate and winning. we 80 percent are unforgiven or step creation of him, we always suffer defeat, humiliation, insult, failure, indigence and lack of fortune most of the times if not always. i have a lot more to write but i will wait to see if you are still here mr. spinoza or am i just talking to myself????
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous,
DeleteNo you're not talking to yourself and I'm delighted to read your thoughts.
Do please tell the readers of Rational Islam more of your experiences of leaving Islam.
Best wishes,
Spinoza
All religions are capable of evil because it creates a latent tribalism which drives humans to violence. But to say all religions are equally bad is not true.for a religion to be worse then are many factors like the central principle,stringent rules that you must follow even the number of pages could matter.you can easily relate the core tenants of islam and the degree to which most muslims believe in quran (to be the one and final message by god) to the ongoing violence towards apostates,homosexuals,women,hatred to non muslims in general which is rampant in the Islamic world
Deletethanks friend. i think not too many people read your blog, you should choose some other platform like facebook or twitter to continue. i guess it will be only you and me talking to each other. I'm even okay with that, at least, finally i found someone out who thinks the way i think. if i talk to people against god, they start arguing and even quarreling me. I'm happy to find someone like me, i will be sharing my thoughts with you. stay tuned. I like Ja Rule song one of us where he says:
ReplyDeleteIF GOD WERE ONE OF US
WOULD HE SIN AND LOVE TO LIE
IF GOD WERE ONE OF US
WOULD HE FREAKIN' LIVE HIS LIFE
IF GOD WERE ONE OF US
WOULD HE USE HIS NAME IN VAIN
IF GOD WERE ONE OF US
WOULD HE BELIEVE THAT HE WOULD EVER BREATH AGAIN
//Allah makes it plain that if you are a polytheist, an ancestor worshiper or an atheist, or anything other than a monotheist in the Abrahamic fold, you will go to Hell and suffer an eternity of unimaginable torment.//
ReplyDeletePolytheist, Atheist , Agnostic..in short those who believe in No or Multiple God or worship idols will go to hell no matter what.
Monotheist can only go to heaven if message of islam didn't reach him/her.Else no matter how strict monotheist he is , he will not be forgiven if he did not accept Islam
i dont understand why do you have such a problem with the heaven maidens?
ReplyDeletewhatever, listen if you create a billions of machines/robots etc,given them some sense and will of their own and then they start disobeying you, and say that actually you were not the one who created them, what will you do? weren't you be so angry and would want to desteoy them all?
thats all ! dont wanna say anything else...
thats the probleme you are seeing god as a human and you said it you will destroy them not put them in fire forever
DeleteAnon, If you are happy not just to believe in a god who tortures for eternity a large part of his creation, but to worship this sadistic deity as well - then that's your business. But please don't expect me to "understand" His actions.
ReplyDeleteYou're not the first Muslim to use the analogy of robots. I find this interesting. It's almost as if you are trying to distance yourself from the concept of your god torturing human beings.
Please be a man and don't live your life in fear of some imaginary creation punishing you. Have the guts -like so many ex-Muslims - to stand up and say that you regard such a credo as naive at best and at worst perverted in its delight in believing that so many will suffer so much.
Assalamuelaikum!!
ReplyDeleteMy dear brother i my self am a muslim, and i really found your article very interesting, and thought that we could disscuss and work towards a better understanding of "ISLAM".
Now the most important thing for you to understand is that, every religion who came before Islam proved It self beneficial and a source of seeking merciness from the Creater. So as far as your question is concerned regarding that murderer, i really appreciate your objection and i have an answer for it. If we look throught the eyes of humanity a person who is a murderer if realises his sins, and then accepts Islam, and ask for forgiveness from Allah, and indeed he is forgiven as Allah is the most mercyfull and rewarding, but on the other hand u need to realise that Islam not only showed him the way for his own forgiveness, but as well as proved itself beneficial for the whole society. That murderer due to the acceptence of Islam, is now living a peacefull life, and is no longer dangerous to any person around him. Islam gave him a chance, to realise his sins and then to work for the betterment of the society. It can be considrted as a miracle for that murderer as it only takes more than a miracle, to change a murderer to live a life of a peacefullman. More over if your asking about those people who are wise, and live a good life working for the betterment of others are unfairly treated from Allah as they do not worship him. The answer for that question is that Allah had clearly explained in His Quran that why we are created? and what is our purpose of life? So the first and the main article of faith in Islam is the Acceptance of "Tauheed" that Allah is the only creater and the sustainer of the universe. So he orders us to live for the betterment of others, and prove our self beneficial for the whole humanity. But on the other hand Islam makes it clears that u have to Accept Tauheed and save ur self from "Shirk" (assosiating partners with Allah) or even not believing in Him. Now i want you to understand that, those who are good people but unbelievers strive hard for this world and get there worldly rewards in any aspects which satisfies there desires and wishes. But as the don't believe or worship there sole creater Allah then it is logically understandable that they can not achieve success in life fter death. "They are rewarded but only in this world which is mortal" as our human lives are. So what i want to conclude it that, Islam shows us the way to gain mercy from Allah and sucess in this world and the hereafter. The warnings which Islam continously tells about in the Quran is in order to encourage people and to help them to stay from sins and to not to follow satan's commmands as he "l lead you to hell if u followed him like the other non-believers who worship him and follow his commands. Our religion shows the realit,y and conveys the message of piece and purity.
why Allah is n't merciful? Why Allah wrote in kuran to kill all who are non-muslims?why jihad?why killing of innocent? Why bloodshed? Why only muslim involved in such things? Why notchristians ,hindus,buddhist are not as voilent as islam?why allah told to kill beautiful creature in name of qurbani?
ReplyDeleteif i m n't beliving in allah(the supreme power)how i will go to hell?if i m believing in jesus,buddha ,and i m telling allah as god ,how is it sinfull.why allah asked to do jihad for innocent peoples.
ReplyDeleteif islam is so much scientific,and great why n't muslim world is developing.why allah is n't feeding india and pakistan muslim poplation who are 30pc below poverty line
ReplyDeleteAsslamuelaikum!!
ReplyDeleteFirst of all i would like to state that again the purpose of this article is to create a better idea ,to understand, acknowledge and to learn what is morality and wisdom. The difference between myths and dogmas.
Now the answer for your interesting question is very easy but in order to make it more clear and easy for you to understand its you who need to go through it very politly and generously. "Being honest to your own selves actually."
First of all Allah Almighty is not cruel or any thing that is related to madness, sickness and insanity. Though as being the sole Creater and sustainer he does wants and order his creations to only bow before him. So when it comes to killing, Quran does not orders such kind off cruelity although Quran do gives logical reasons for every order it gives. If your saying about Islam or Quran being voilent or cruel then you should first see to it wether how your mind came to think of that in this way? If you are a logical person then it is a very basic thing for you to understand that Allah wants his creation to escape from this made-up mindset of atheism and any other religion as its fair and a balanced scenerio to demand such a thing. Or my brother isn't it? What is the purpose of just believing and not showing your intensions and deeds. "Royalty and faith is some thing which is not only a part of any religion but of humanity too. " If you read the whole Quran and understand every aspects and facts then it will be nore clear to you as just going through a sub idea won't particularly help. Killing non-muslims is your question? So my brother the answer is that Islam teaches its believers to form an Islamic state and to spread their dynasty as to gain control of this workd for the betterment of not only themselves but the whole population. Their is no such thing as if some one is not accepting your religion then Allah orders to kill them. Even a muslim is not even allowed to force anyone to accept Islam as it is pretty obvious to a muslim that Allah only sees and therefore knows the intensions of everyone so forcing will not help in any way. If you blame muslims for being dogmastic terrorists then its obviously because of the news and views our global media is spreading against Islam. Muslims are ordered and even they do respect every religion as they are in the view of Islam supposed to. Jihad is not killing innocent people but killing those who are against your religion by physicall means and harm you through any way either a war or even a conspiracy if facts are clear.
You see the appropriate information and knowledge of any thing can not be gained or acheived until you yourself recognize the base and reason of the facts. Like in Afghanistan the talibans are only fighting for their rights. If some other rasict or spritual cruel idealist forced attack at your home state or country then what will you do ?? If some one brutally murders and kills your family members then what will you do?? So all the blames and false accusing that have happend has been a part of sarcastic conspiracies which many of us had failed to determine logically. Muslims are supposed to wage wars with those who stand infront of them in order to war. If you go through the history and life time of our Holy Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) then you wull.see that he himself was very strict to his companions while ordering to not to harm any children or women or even man who didnt wanted a war or were innocent. at the end i would like to answer the most interesting question of yours. That why muslims are not developing etc?? Muslims nowadays have lost their purpose and teaching which were the very basics of islam instead they go for myths and false sources of information. Being a muslim doesnot means that you will live a luxuries or a wealthy life. I do accept that we are very unadvanced and uncivilised nations but that doesnt mean that we should blame our religion for that. The only way our relegion can be blammed is through which when we do follow its teaching properly and then you see any lackness or unfairness. This world is a test for believers, who ever succedes enters paradise or else then why would we had to follow the teaching of Islam anyway.
ReplyDeletePlease i would like to answer every question of yours but the main thing for you is to develop a sense of empathy like me so that we could help each other out in a very delightfull and excellent manner.
ReplyDeletePlease read this translations, your last pessage caught my sight and to make it more clear to you that you are not taking tge translation in a right manner i have pasted this in order to aware you of the real idea.
ReplyDeleteSurah Muhammad, Verse 4:
So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam (i.e. are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire) or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost,
via iQuran
Mr.Spinoza?
ReplyDeleteAs a muslim i too have wrestled with the punishment described in the Holy Quran, i love my religion and how it betters me as a person but this is definitely one area where i am searching for answers. nevertheless there are a few things i wish to share.
ReplyDeletethe Quran mentions "disbelivers". You must ask yourself what a disbeliever is.... a disbeliever is not someone who hasn't been made aware of the message... such a person simply doesn't know and they will be judged based on what they know. a disbeliever is someone who sees the message as its meant to be seen in its correct way and then decides to DISbelieve, going against logic and rationality.
In today's age one may argue that the true teachings of islam have been marred by islamophobia and muslims who have brought a lot of disrepute to the religion itself. how they have manipulated and taken things out of context for their own use etc etc etc and thus people have an argument that the true religion is not as apparent and thus an excuse as to why they didnt believe. God will judge accordingly
saying that your idea that all non muslims will be punished for an eternity is completely false...
in chapter 2 verse 62 of the Quran, Allah says,
the Believers, the Jews, the Christians and the Sabians, all those who believe in one God, the last day, and act righteously, will have their reward from God. no fear for them, nor will they grieve.
the above article thus requires some editing.... thats now your choice
Hi SM Jaffer,
DeleteI am unsure why you think my article needs editing. I make it plain that I am referring to where the Qur'an says those who "anything other than a monotheist in the Abrahamic fold" will go to Hell to be tortured for an eternity. Your reference to Jews and Christians is therefore irrelevant.
The question remains, how is such eternal torture ever justified for anything never mind simply not believing in God? Take a scenario, the most evil person you can think of, now question yourself, given the chance would you torture that person for eternity? Would you "pour boiling water over their head" as it is literally described in the Quran, or tear their skin off and grow it back for eternity? I doubt there are many decent human beings who could bring themselves to do this, yet it is no problem for Allah? Yet this is who we are supposed to worship.
ReplyDeletePutting all other arguments aside, this alone surely has to prove that it is not a religion of peace. How can it be if it's deity is so sadistic.
I've heard analogies like the robot one above before, one a muslim friend of mine once said was, "if you had a boss who you completely ignored.. would you expect him to continue employing you?". My answer is probably not, but would you expect him to torture you for eternity? No.
If I ever turned to Islam, the main motivation would be fear, is that the right way to live your life?
It's been a few weeks since I posted this, I've been checking back to see if anyone replied. I'd like to clarify I don't want the above to come across as an attempt at insulting any Muslims or your religion. I mean it as a genuine question as it is something I think about quite often. It is the obstacle I cannot get past and I'd be genuinely grateful if any Muslims could try and explain it to me.
ReplyDeleteThe point being I know many Muslims who are great people and contribute much more to humanity than I do, I see how much peace their religion brings them and I do know there are many positive things about Islam. I also believe there are many negative things about it but this is the one I cannot get past, I can't fathom how the above mentioned people can be comfortable with this part of their religion.
I think that you should read the quran and understand all aspects of it before making such misconceptions or relying on other Muslims to correct you. We would be more than happy to clear your misunderstanding, but I think that it would be better if you see for yourself. All I say is that you go, read some of the quran, and try to remove your bias. Then, you'll know what you've said above is horribly wrong to a huge degree
ReplyDeleteI have read the Qur'an, many times. Please explain exactly how I have misunderstood Allah's very clear promise to torture with unimaginable and disgusting punishment for ever and ever anyone who fails to worship Him.
DeleteWhy do you assume we haven't read the Qur'an? Is there a part in it that I missed that would clear this up? You say you are more than happy to clear things up? Then please do rather that throwing out typical words like 'bias'. When you say things like this it makes me think it's because you don't have an answer.
DeleteWho wrote Quran...???
ReplyDeleteHey Spinoza, I just found your blog and it really is interesting.
ReplyDeleteMost of your article quoted directly from Quran, or Bukhari Muslim, which is considering absolute truth. And you not some shallow-people who quoted part of quran to spread its hatred toward Islam. From what I see, your intention is as clear as crystal, to show and discuss the rational side of many things in Islam.
I a born moslem and currently is. But I start to questioning things (well, because I am very logic person). I also wonder about many people who do very good deed but not a Moslem. It is very unfair those will put in misery of eternity.
There are many things that doubt me, but there are also things I cannot reason other than Miracle.
The most important thing is the fact that Mohammad is illiterate, yet he can bring Quran which at that times makes many people cry for its beauty.
How can you explain that to me? because that is one thing I cannot even rationalize the reason behing it other than miracle.
There's nothing but 1400 year old accounts of the truth in this, maybe he was illiterate but there's no real hard evidence that would stand a court like scenario, there's also no real evidence that no one helped him write it if he was.
ReplyDeleteThis proves nothing, just like the so called scientific miracles which are all either vague/inaccurate or open to a very wide scope of interpretation.
Anyway respect to you for questioning things, don't stop questioning. I know doubt is very much forbidden in Islam which further reenforces the idea that it is a man made control structure.
For the record I am agnostic and do believe in the possibility of some higher level of consciousness or God if that's what you want to call it. I just could never lead a truly happy and fulfilling life believing in this God.
Hi Spinoza,
ReplyDeletePlease see http://mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/
Happy Reading...!
PO
Allah or God is infinitely best only for his creatures in heaven, for all the others He is worst (something which God should be truly ashamed of). Allah deserve pity of being so coward that He entertains his sense of anger, sadness and cruelty on his weak creatures.
ReplyDeleteThere is no god,get your head out of your asses
ReplyDeleteFuck all the gods,fuck any god
We invented them,fuck them all