"None of our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar- Knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?" 16:101
Abrogation is important when one is trying to understand the reasons behind the strict Islamic ruling which states that Muslims are not allowed to drink. For it seems that the Qur'an is not as clear on this matter as we have been led to believe.
So where in the Qur'an does it state that alcohol is haraam or forbidden? Here is a reply on a QA site written by Muslims to the question: Why is alcohol forbidden in Islam?
Intoxicants were forbidden in the Qur'an through several separate verses revealed at different times over a period of years. At first, it was forbidden for Muslims to attend to prayers while intoxicated (4:43). Then a later verse was revealed which said that alcohol contains some good and some evil, but the evil is greater than the good (2:219). This was the next step in turning people away from consumption of it. Finally, "intoxicants and games of chance" were called "abominations of Satan's handiwork," intended to turn people away from God and forget about prayer, and Muslims were ordered to abstain (5:90-91). (Note - the Qur'an is not arranged chronologically, so later verses of the book were not necessarily revealed after earlier verses.)This seems to be a full and reasonable answer and I'm sure many Muslims reading this would be reassured. Nonetheless, those who know their Qur'an well will immediately realise that an important verse has been omitted from the seemingly authoritative explanation.
Surah 16 (Nahl) has many verses describing the beneficence of Allah which enumerate what He has provided for us.
From water:
Allah sendeth down water from the sky and therewith revives the earth after her death! Lo! herein is indeed a portent for a folk who hear. 16:65
..to milk:
And lo! in the cattle there is a lesson for you. We give you to drink of that which is in their bellies, from betwixt the refuse and the blood, pure milk palatable to the drinkers. 16:66
and honey:
And thy Lord inspired the bee, saying: Choose thou habitations in the hills and in the trees and in that which they thatch;
Then eat of all fruits, and follow the ways of thy Lord, made smooth (for thee). There cometh forth from their bellies a drink diverse of hues, wherein is healing for mankind. Lo! herein is indeed a portent for people who reflect. 16: 68-69
...and in the very middle of this list of the wonderful things which Allah has provided for us comes...ALCOHOL:
And of the fruits of the date palm, and grapes, whence ye derive strong drink and (also) good nourishment. Lo! therein, is indeed a sign for people who have sense.
Isn't it strange how the good people at about.islam.com neglected to mention this verse? Perhaps it was an oversight and other Islamic sites do better. Here's another one which mentions the many verses which tell Muslims how angry Allah will be if they drink or gamble but signally fails to give their readers the full picture.
Why is this do you think?
Might it be that the doctrine of abrogation begins to look a little desperate when the verses stand in such blatant contradiction to each other? How can Allah on the one hand say alcohol is a gift to humanity in the same way as water, milk and honey are, and then later perform a complete volt-face so that it is utterly forbidden. Are the keepers of the mysteries of Islam worried that if they allow the full picture to emerge, Muslims will start to question the whole dubious doctrine of abrogation?
Now before I go any further I perhaps need to mention that there are some Islamic sites (such as the despicable quranandscience.com) which mention 16:67. But strangely enough the translations they give leave out any suggestion that the verse refers to alcoholic drink. Here's a typical example:
"And from the fruit of the date-palm and the vine ye get out wholesome drink and food: behold in this also is a Sign for those who are wise."
Why should such sites feel the need to change or interpret the words of Allah, do you think?
One last thing. Some Muslims have taken the final words of the verse (Therein is a sign for people who have sense) as an indication that we are supposed to view the fact that we can get both liquor and nourishment as an example of how we can choose to make both good and bad use of Allah's gifts. This might hold water were it not for the CONTEXT of the verse. You will have noticed that ALL the other verses in this section of Nahl also have similar words about signs, portents or lessons:
verse 65: Lo! herein is indeed a portent for a folk who hear (about water)
verse 66: And lo! in the cattle there is a lesson for you (about milk)
verse 67: Therein is a sign/portent for people who have sense (about alcohol)
verse 69: Lo! herein is indeed a portent for people who reflect (about honey)
We thus have a very clear series of gifts that Allah has given us and upon which we are to supposed to reflect. Nothing more, nothing less.
For those who read the Qur'an with an open mind without the weight of scholarly "wisdom" to hamstring our interpretation, it is clear that the author of the Qur'an meant for his followers to treat alcohol as a gift from God - just like the Jews and Christians did (whom Muhammad was so keen to attract when he was writing the early surahs. Is it too much to suppose that Muhammad, in saying that alcohol was an important gift from God in the new religion was trying to attract the Jews and Christians who he knew used alcohol in their ceremonies? It is perhaps worth reminding readers how Jerusalem was the direction of prayer in the early surahs before this was abrogated as well and the followers were told to pray to Mecca.)
He then changed his mind. Just like a human author is want to do.
Note: Before any Muslim tells me that they AREN'T allowed to drink alcohol...I know. It was meant to be nothing more than a thought-provoking title...and I hope readers HAVE thought a little more about the issue of alcohol and how and when it came to be haraam.
Note: Before any Muslim tells me that they AREN'T allowed to drink alcohol...I know. It was meant to be nothing more than a thought-provoking title...and I hope readers HAVE thought a little more about the issue of alcohol and how and when it came to be haraam.
are you seriously suggesting that Allah originally said humans could drink alcohol??
ReplyDeletewhere is your evidence??
Maybe little wine is not harmful and does not make anyone to act wild after drinking wine. Alcohol is forbidden since it makes one wild and unable to pray.
DeleteAnd "of the fruits" of the date-palm and grapes, whence ye derive strong drink (ie alcohol) and also good nourishment (ie. juices). Lo! "therein is indeed" a portent for people who have sense.
ReplyDeleteEven though you try to put context to the verse, I still feel, if it is read properly it is not speaking of the virtues of alcohol or the juice but of the fruits.
The subject of the sentence is the Date Palm and Grape fruits. It says: "And of the fruits of the date-palm, and grapes" from which you derive whatever, therein (the subject) is a portent for sensible people.
I know as usual the Qur'an can be vague hence leading to another contentious issue. And of course the fact that Islamic sites do not mention it at all just goes to show their fear of tackling the controversy.
Also to claim that alcohol is permitted in the Qur'an from verse 6:67 would contradict all the things he said on the matter in the Sunnah:
Sahih Muslim 10:3840 - Allah's Messenger said: Verily Allah and His Messenger have forbidden the sale of wine, carcass, swine and idols.
Sahih Muslim 23:4962 - Allah's Messenger said: He who drank wine in this world would be deprived of it in the Hereafter.
Sahih Muslim 17:4226 - A person who had drunk wine was brought to Allah's Apostle. He gave him forty stripes with two lashes. But when Umar was Caliphate prescribed the mildest punishment for drinking is eighty stripes.
Just my 2 pence!
Azim
Thanks, Azim. I would agree were it not for two things:
Delete1. the fact that this surah comes in the early years when Muhammad was saying to his followers that they should pray facing Jerusalem in the hope of gaining followers from Judaism. (It wasn't until January 624, during the salat prayer, that he told the congregation to turn around so that they faced in the direction of Mecca rather than Jerusalem.)
2. the fact that in both Judaism and Christianity the drinking of wine plays a central role. The Jews, for example, during Shabat meals every Friday night and Saturday afternoon, make a blessing over a cup of wine before the meal ..whilst wine, of course, is fundamental to the Christian Eucharist.
It therefore seems totally logical that Muhammad should have stressed the importance of wine for this new religion at the beginning.
It wasn't until later that he began to have doubts. As it became obvious that the Jews were never going to believe his revelation so he changed the direction of prayer and started to initiate the banning of alcohol - first by saying that the Muslims mustn't come to prayers when they were drunk and then, finally, by announcing that all alcohol was haraam.
and, one might add, the making of alcohol haraam was an excellent way for Muhammad to differentiate his new religion from the other monotheistic faiths ONCE it had become clear the Jews were rejecting him (just as turning one's backs on Jerusalem to pray served the same purpose)
Deletei never heard about jerusalem become kiblat. mind to send some source.
DeleteHave only recently discovered this blog and with several Muslim friends and colleagues (some more 'radical' than others) find the articles and comments very interesting. On the subject of drink, a book by Christoph Luxenberg, "Die Syro-Aaramaische Lesart es Koran" (currently only available in German) suggests that the language of Mohammed was Syriac and not Arabic. This thesis has apparently caused some interest amongst scholars of Semitic languages. If the thesis is correct, instead of 72 houris waiting in the Islamic hereafter, there will be drinks of white raisins of crystal clarity'. In Syriac, the the 'hur' is a feminie plural adjective usually relating to raisins. Similarly the immortal pearl-like youths of suras such as LXXVI.19 is really a misreading the Syriac expression meaning chilled raisins, or drinks. Whether these would be alcoholic or not is not known. I have tried to discuss this with my colleagues and few will enter into a converation about it. It may be ironic that all these Islamic fundamentalist suicide bombers are expecting a life of paradise with ever compliant virgins and all they may actually receive is a drink and box of Sun Valley dried fruit!
ReplyDeleteHi Anon - yes I had heard about this although i think his theory has been disproved. pity - nice thought!
DeleteYes Spinoza it's so easily disproved:
DeleteThey say houris are raisins that men would risk going into battle for? Would you sacrifice your life for a few raisins?
Let's see what the Qur'an says about houri raisins in heaven in the proper context:
Q37:48 And besides them will be chaste women, restraining their glances, with big eyes of wonder and beauty. Pure (virgin) as they were hidden eggs of the ostrich.
Why would raisins need to be like hidden eggs of the ostrich, ie pure and untouched?
Q44:54 …and We will wed them with houris (dark-eyed virgins) pure, beautiful ones.
Being wed to a raisin? Not much of an incentive to enter heaven!
Q52:17-20 Reclining on thrones set in lines, and We will unite them to fair, large-eyed beautiful ones.
Reclining on thrones and being united with raisins, what a prize.
Q56:36-37 And made them virgin - pure and undefiled, loving, equals in age
Oh yes the raisins will be virgin raisins, very loving and the same age as the guys being martyred in battle.
Q55:56-58 In them will be bashful virgins neither man nor Jinn will have touched before... As though they were rubies and corals
Imagine getting raisins like rubies and corals that no man or jinn has touched. Those raisins must have been picked by women.
Q55:72-77 Pure ones, close-guarded in pavilions, whom no man or Jinn before them has touched reclining on green cushions and rich carpets of beauty.
Special raisins that recline on green cushions and must be guarded in pavilions.
And what about the Sunnah:
Ibn Majah, 5:4337 Allah’s Messenger said: “Allah will not admit anyone into Paradise but Allah, the Mighty and glorious will marry him with seventy two wives, Every one of them will have a pleasant vagina and he (the man) will have sexual organ that does not bend down during sexual intercourse.”
Men will look forward to marrying 72 raisins each of which has pleasant vaginas. And the these guys will need eternal erections to caress and savour these raisins.
Al-Tirmizi, volume 2, pg 35-40: The Prophet said: A houri is a most beautiful young woman with a transparent body. The marrow of her bones is visible like the interior lines of pearls and rubies. She looks like red wine in a white glass. She is of white color, and free from the routine physical disabilities of an ordinary woman such as menstruation, menopause, urinal and offal discharge, child bearing and the related pollution. A houri is a girl of tender age, having large breasts which are round (pointed), and not inclined to dangle. Houris dwell in palaces of splendid surroundings.
And based on the Prophet's description of these raisins we understand that they are transparent, has no physical disabilities. Strangely enough these raisins do not menstruate or undergo menopause. They don't even urinate or bare baby raisins. These raisins are of a tender age with large self supporting breasts living in grande palaces.
Wow I must say this really makes Jannat so much more enticing for me. I really have to revert to Islam to ensure I can enjoy these raisins for eternity!
One really has mighty gullible to fall for these modern day apologetics.
Azim
Azim,
DeletePerhaps sarcasm is one of the few weaknesses of mankind that Islam allows? Not being a scholar of Islam, I have merely put forward a fairly recent theory - now disproved, so it seems, or has it? In August 2001, Hamas activist Muhammed Abu Wardeh, a recruiter of terrorists for suicide bombings in Israel, was quoted as saying, "If you become a martyr, God will gie you 70 virgins, 70 wives and everlasting happiness as the reward for sacrficing your life." However, other Islamic activists refer to 72 virgins. Perhaps Abu Wardeh planned on keeping an extra 2 virgins per martyr for himself when he finally reached that paradise?
From information given to me by Muslim friends and as you will no doubt be aware, the Koran gives details of the Islamic paradise in sura 55 verses 54 - 56, sura 56 verses 12 - 40 and sura 76 verses 12 - 22 but apparently nowhere in the Koran does it mention 72 virgins. Perhaps you could correct me on this? Also, I am told the Koran states that 'heavenly houris' (angels, raisins?) will be available for all Muslims who enter heaven and not just those who play starburst with their bodies. Again, I am willing to be corrected, but please, no sarcasm this time as it only belittles the user.
Hey Anon, don't take my post personally. It was only intended to bring a little humour to the blog.
DeleteAnyway, you are right there is no reference to the number of houris you get in the Qur'an. Not even in the Sahih hadiths. However the fact that you do get many houris and their attributes are very well described in both these scriptures.
All men entering Jannat do get houris not just the ones being a starburst. However there are many grades of Jannat and according to Muhammad the martyrs for Islam attain the highest level, hence presumably the most houris as we read in the following hadith.
Sahih Muslim 20:4645 - Whoever cheerfully accepts Allah, Islam and Muhammad is entitled to enter Paradise. But there is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred times higher, Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!
Azim
Azim,
DeleteThanks for the reply. Wonder where the magic figure of 72 (or 70 in Abu Wardeh's world) came from?
What about women? Do they enter the Islamic paradise too? It could be deemed unfair if they don't, especially as so many of them seem to be used for starburst duty. What do women get out of Islam? Surely, it's an equal opportunity religion? If they are allowed in, do they also get 72-ish (male) virgins? My wife reckons she can't think of anything worse than 72 men who have no idea what is where or what to do when they find it!
We Jews have a festival where we are SUPPOSED to get steamed - it's called Purim. So yes, wine plays an important part in our religion and i would say it's quite reasonable to suggest that Muhammad might have praised wine as a way to ingratiate himself and his new religion with the Jews.
ReplyDeleteDavid B
Anon, The 72 virgins is taken from Ibn Majah verse 5:4337 which I quoted in my earlier post (August 21, 2012 4:28 PM).
ReplyDeleteAbout women, there is a hadith where Muhammad states that hell is made up mostly of women because "they curse too much, are ungrateful to your husbands, lack commonsense, fail in religion and rob wisdom of the wise." Sahih Muslim 1:142.
If they do get into Jannat then they are destined only to be with the person who was their earthly husband and hence compete with the houris. Their is a nice hadith that explains the resentfulness that will occur in heaven between the wife and her husband's houris:
Ibn-i-Majah 3:2014 Allah’s Messenger said, “A woman does not annoy her husband but his spouse from amongst the houris will say: Do not annoy him, may Allah ruin you. He is with you as a passing guest. Very soon, he will part with you and come to us.”
So a woman does not get the same rewards as men in the afterlife. Islam is strictly a male orientated club.
Azim
Azim,
DeleteThanks for that. Sounds a bit mysoginistic to me. Do Muslim men really hate their women that much, or are they really afraid of them and the power they hold? Makes me wonder why a lot of the suicide attacks are carried out by women. A number of the wives of my Muslim friends are quite vocal in their praise for Islam, especially when their husbands are around, yet are sometimes reticent when they're not (they're westernised enough for them to be with other males who are not their husbands or relatives).
I do know that they're not allowed to be in the same room in the mosque when praying (something about men becoming inflamed with desire if they are seen - possibly an example of their power on men's emotions). As regards the number 72 mentioned above, the thought of having 72 mothers-in-law, or mothers of houris, constantly nagging at one doesn't sound like much of a paradise to me! On a more serious note, the thought of a paradise seems to be a contradiction in terms. It is human nature to advance, to explore, to experiment, to learn and to experience new sensations. The term paradise also gives an impression of perfection, which means that to explore and advance would be of no benefit as it is impossible to improve on perfection. This surely means that when residing in paradise, the men will stagnate and even the thought of having sex with 72 women, who will immediately revert to being virgins after the deed, would eventually pall. You can't live on chicken and cream cheese forever.
Jasmine has arrived! Get your boxing gloves on! :)
ReplyDeleteWelcome Jasmine!
DeleteFor regular readers of Rational Islam who may not know Jasmine, she is a regular commentor at London Muslim blog.
I look forward to some interesting debates...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteEveryone here is babling about something in which they have no clue. Stop taking stories and verses out of context. How exactly did you judge Islam being male oriented? When Islam came at the time of Persians and Romans none of those empires gave rights to women let alone respect of any sort to them. Slavery was in its peak.
ReplyDeleteTherefore....
Islam at that time announced that:
1-slavery is forbidden
2-women have the right to choose who to marry
3-women have the right to inherit
4-women were given 3 times the respect to a father by a hadeeth of prophet (pbuh)
5-women participated in battlefields as a part of the army
6-and in heaven a woman is a lot more beatiful than the 70 virgin hoor alaien, rewarding a women with more beauty as to what she served in life.
7-the story about (hell is made mostly of women) meant to teach women not to gossip. Also, not betray, resign their husbends.
Islam gave all of that 1400 years ago when most of the world lived under horrible laws.
The elections and democracy? We had that 1400 years ago, although some ppl out of greed changed it but that is not the point.
The point is, when you take the Quran, you take it all without leaving a part of it.
Saeed,
DeleteI have composed a new post to answer the first of your points.
http://rationalislam.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/slavery-unfair-criticism-of-quran.html
I am new to Islam however the more I learn the more I think I have always been muslim. The following are my beliefs and understanding as of today and may change as I progress in my choosen faith.
ReplyDeleteThere is no earthly being that can dictate to me the teachings of the prophets. My relationship with Allah is just that MY relationship. The decisions I make I will have to answer for. However I answer to no earthly being about my faith. I have come to Islam after 34 yrs of life, the things I have done before now contradict almost every religious rule that any major religion has put out. However my sins were wiped clean when I accepted Allah in my life. And when I struggle and revert to past behavior I must again answer for that. But just reading this article shows how vastly different we all interpret the teachings.
alcohol is clearly forbidden in Islam so keep away from it, it is the mother towards all evil.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand the appeal of alcohol, in any case. Hashish is better and safer.
ReplyDeleteHashish is marijuana. It is not better or safer. ~Mariam
DeleteThis is insane. You are misleading muslims from a righteous way of living. Eveyrbody knows the effects of alcohol on an individual and family and society. How can you even think such a thing is beyond me. You are twisting the meaning accroding to your own whims and fancies. So please stop preaching
ReplyDeleteHi Muhammad,
ReplyDeleteI am simply inviting Muslims to reflect and think for themselves.
I agree entirely that the misuse of alcohol is a terrible thing.
However, if it is such an evil, one has to ask why God gave us the means to make it in the first place.
And if I may be allowed to predict your answer...?
"It's a test..."
God gave us the means to make drugs, and tobacco, and alcohol, of course. He also made lying and stealing and murdering quite possible. He let us have all things sinful. That doesn't mean we should do them, though, right? Children are taught all their lives not to smoke or take drugs or even drink. So even the people who are allowed to discourage it.
Delete-Mariam
Religion is beautiful. It's the mysterious side of human nature, it's so important and so deeply personal. May all of your actions draw you closer to the truth, God, Slef, reality, love, meaning, compassion, being, bliss, eternity.....
ReplyDeleteDUring the times of the prophet SAWS drinking alcohol was not forbidden, soon people started drinking too much which obviously had side effects. So the prophet SAWS forbade them from drinking too much, after the prophet's death the companions banned drinking.
ReplyDeleteAnd of the fruits of the date palm, and grapes, whence ye derive strong drink and (also) good nourishment. Lo! therein, is indeed a sign for people who have sense.
ReplyDeletethis verse was revealed before intoxicants were made forbidden. The Quran was revealed over a period of 23 years. Allah gradually made alcohol forbidden. its not a contradiction. We also follow the Prophet (pbuh) way of life called the "SUNNAH" and Allah has ordered to do so in the Quran: Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger’s duty to proclaim (the Message) in the clearest manner. (5: 92).
Muslims follow the sunnah, the sayings of the Prophet Muhammed are called hadeeth. there are authentic hadeeths which say alcohol is forbidden.
i notice this site is to critisize the Quran.
if you use your common sense you'll come to this conclusion; Allah created everything in the Heavens and Earth and everything between it. Thats obvious for a person who sincerely reflects on his surroundings. He revealed the Quran to Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him). Its been preserved for 1400 plus more years (in the arabic language it was revealed), unlike other scriptures (FYI the Quran confirms other scriptures like the torah, gospel. The message in them prior to THEIR CORRUPTION, is the same as in the Quran). The Message is simple. Worship only one God, pray and do righteous deeds. He demands nothing from us!!! And He is Far above what anyone associates with Him (son, daughter, other deities etc)
If you use your common sense this message isnt rocket science.If you approach the Quran with sincerity to find the Truth, your eyes will open , Allah willing
"They say: The Compassionate (Allah) has begotten a son. You have indeed uttered something so monstrous, that the very heavens might crack, the earth might cleave asunder and the mountains might crumble to pieces- at their ascribing a son to the Compassionate. It is not befitting to the Compassionate (Allah) that He should beget a son. There is none in the heavens and in the earth but comes to the Compassionate (Allah)as a servant." Quran verses 83-92
Also Mohammed (peace be upon him) couldnt read or write!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDelete"If you are in doubt about the Divine authorship of what We have been sending down on Our servant (Muhammad) (and claim that it is the work of a human being like Muhammad, who can neither read or write 14), then produce just a sūrah like it and call for help from all your supporters, all those (to whom you apply for help apart from God), if you are truthful in your doubt and claim" QURAN 2:23
WEBSITE:http://mquran.org/content/view/30/4/
If a person drinks will he/she can't pray or touch the Quran for 45 days??
ReplyDeleteYou should not drink, because alcohol tastes bad and makes you do stupid things. It is just as fun to hang out with drunk people while being sober and as a bonus, you can remember how much fun you had.
ReplyDeleteYou should not eat pig because it tastes bad and why eat something that tastes bad when delicious food is available like fish and chips where the fish has a southern spiced batter and the chips are ultra-crunchy (I am cooking it right now).
Qu'ran 27:29 She said, "O my advisers, I have received an honorable letter.
I'll agree booze can make you do stupid things but...
DeleteIt tastes bad??
Pork tastes bad??
Yes - we all hate crisp bacon and crunchy crackling and sausages and black pudding...
pork is the best....specially sauted with wine..or even tequila or brandy..isssanice
DeletePeople are being slaughtered in the name of Islam and this is the best topic you could choose.
ReplyDeleteHi Anon,
DeleteThis is one of hundreds of posts - all written to encourage people to question and research. Perhaps if they do that and come to the conclusion that the Qur'an was written by a 7th century desert dweller and NOT by God then they might stop killing people in His name. We can but hope...
First in the verse you showed it says that it is a sign not a gift, also wine straight from grapes is probably allowed but who knows what is added to wine now-a-days to make it stronger; hence it being said that the sin is greater. Allah knew what would come of it, which is just another proof for me.
ReplyDeleteHi Anon,
DeleteMy point is that this verse is in the midst of all the other wonderful things Allah has apparently provided for us, and the language used to describe liquor is EXACTLY the same as that for water, milk and honey: "a sign"... Occam's Razor suggests that the most obvious interpretation - that "God" intended man to enjoy booze - is the right one. Then He changed His mind - sorry abrogated the verse - and decided to make alcohol haram to i.stop his followers from getting plastered all the time ii. and distinguish His lot from the annoyingly recalcitrant Jewish lobby who refused to toe the line and believe Muhammad was His prophet.
I was told one time by a student of Islamic teaching, that it was Umar alkhattab who insisted the outright haraamisation (if there is such a word) of khamar (alcoholic drinks). first it was ok, then umar voice out his discomfort of people praying under influnce, then the ayaah of forbiding drunk people to pray came in, but umar insisted for it to be more strict, hence later the final ruling for khamar to be haraam.
ReplyDeleteSame situation involving umar on the requirement for women to wear hijaab. the revelation came after Umar's insistent/suggestion.
No, i don't know any hadeeth regarding this, but i heard it came out of a reputable 'Alim (someone who study and has knowledge of Islam). If someone knows better, please share he. thanks. btw I', a muslim and pray 5 times a day, fast in ramadhan and sometimes the extra ones, never drink, never gamble, never commited zinaa.
- Alex Fox -
This verse was revealed before the prohibition of alcohol
ReplyDeleteFirst of all: I'm sorry for my bad English.
ReplyDeleteAs a born Muslim that is only recently practicing religion I call all Muslims (or searching to be Muslims) to reflect about visiting this site and most of all in engaging on discussions in the comments. Why? It's true that Islam asks you to Read, Instruct yourself, etc. but the premise of this website is to persuade against Muslim converts. So it uses classic media strategies of selecting specific out of context information to mislead. Also: your not going to be able to make the author of the website change his mind. He would just search for something else because he's not looking to convert or search the truth. His only mission is to prevent people becoming Muslims. So.. Engaging in a discussion you'll never win will lead to frustration and that is a bad feeling. Quran says a lot of times to not engage on this.
Again I say: one thing is to debate about something.. But on this specific matter you'll win nothing because the guy will not change his mind because that's not what he is looking for.
Sura 18:54: "And We have certainly diversified in this Qur'an for the people from every [kind of] example; but man has ever been, most of anything, [prone to] dispute."
18:56: "And We send not the messengers except as bringers of good tidings and warners. And those who disbelieve dispute by [using] falsehood to [attempt to] invalidate thereby the truth and have taken My verses, and that of which they are warned, in ridicule."
Now, I can tell you this: search in your heart. If you really want salvation without hypocrisy there is a lot of irrefutable signs in Quran for the people of knowledge. Read, for example Sura 21. Here:
21:30: "Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?"
How could Mohammad know by the time that every living thing were created from water?! Science has proven atmosphere and earth were a joined entity.. For those who are truly seeking for truth google it.
21:31: "And We placed within the earth firmly set mountains, lest it should shift with them, and We made therein [mountain] passes [as] roads that they might be guided."
It has also been proved mountains are even longer downwards placed like stakes so tectonic plaques would not move (more than they do).
21:32: "And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away."
Everyone know that atmosphere protects us. When asteroids and other outer space objects come to collide with us it's destroyed by our atmosphere before entering. How could he know something like that!?
21:33: "And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming."
I know for sure humanity has observed the universe from a long time ago. But talking about orbits and stuff? Wow...
Also: this verses are consecutive. It's a clear sign. Not coincidently put together.
In Islam we recognize every prophet. We don't believe in multiple religions but in only One. We believe in Moses, Noah, Jesus, Joseph, Mohammad, etc etc. Don't you think that Allah (S.W) intended only one religion? Also, in every religion(Christianity, Judaism, Islam) Allah asks you to pray and give zakat (money for people in need, etc). In Islam you don't need obligatory to give it to a religious leader but you could give it to whatever people you want and no one should know this.
What I'm trying to say: the only religion that is not a business to this day is Islam. In Islam we don't want your money. We don't want a f... from you.
Follow your heart. If you believe God exists.. Are you not going to prostrate? . Allah truly is the most Merciful.
Don't keep engaging in discussion with those who are astray once you know for sure they're only intention is to astray.
Allah (in Arabic means the one true god, without shape color or form, that has no beginning nor end and is eternal and is not someone's offspring nor does he have offsprings, in other words, Allah in Arabic means the one true god.) Milk is pure but it comes from the cow that can also have impurities like feces. Grapes and dates are pure but they can create impure alcohol. It is evident the verse is showing how pure things can create other pure or impure things and that alcohol is an impure form of good grapes, dates, etc. I'm sure the author of this site knows this, but the attempt seems ti be to pretend that god is saying alcohol is good, whereas he is saying that it is impure. Also the author of this site wants to act like the Quran is contradicting itself, which my advice is why do you want to misguide people from the very god that loves you. Why would you want to go to hell, when you can go to heaven. And only Allah (god) knows your intentions best. May you be rightly guided and come to terms with peace and earn heaven instead of hell.
ReplyDeleteI want to share this..there are a lot of information you can read here
ReplyDeletehttp://www.quranandscience.com/
I think that the rule about drinking was added by men. Alcohol can be good to socialise with friends. It does not make you an evil person if you drink alcohol. Muslims see alcohol as equivalent to murder. I'm from a Muslim family and I drink alcohol. My family always shout at me for it. I drink once or twice a week. Muslims need to end the taboo regarding alcohol. It is silly. It makes no sense at all. Alcohol can be enjoyed responsibly. I was once seen by a fellow Muslim with a bottle of beer in my hand. He horned at me and looked so angry. Wtf? Drinking alcohol is not a bad thing. This medieval thinking needs to go.
ReplyDeleteYou 'think' the rule was added by men, so it was added by men?
DeleteSo you just think..... What a scholar. Muslims disputing against each other. Just because some of them 'think' otherwise.
I'd like to thank the author here for making such posts. And to the commenters for keeping the insults away (or maybe the bad ones are disapproved). This article made me think. And it strengthens my faith in a unique way. I really hope that all the Muslims who reads this to just think.
ReplyDeleteWell one of the tenets of Islam was supposed to be that Muslims can't forbid what isn't forbidden, and that is a mistake the Jews did and were punished for.
ReplyDeleteSo it's actually a pretty big deal if alcohol isn't prohibited but Muslims add that prohibition after, as the Quran is supposed to be the sole means of living someone's life and the sunnah only where things are unclear and is still rather optional.
The only ayat I see prohibiting alcohol is for prayer. And that is also not the outright drinking but rather intoxication, which is quite a bit of alcohol, and varies person by person, body weight and gender. For small females it's a couple of drinks, but for many men it's many drinks.
With 5 prayers I guess there is usually an obligatory one, unless people are drinking in the morning and are sober by late afternoon. And also if any alcohol is considered prohibited for prayer.
The blog author generally isn't condescending and doesn't attack posters that comment, so I think of it as in a way bringing a lot of things into focus. But it may be a dangerous site to read for Muslims as well. So you really have to be careful.
scrolling through the various posts the owner of this site i'm sad to say needs prayer for guidance.
ReplyDeletebut i thought it was your merciful god who chose whom he guided and whom he didn't (thus condemning the unbelievers to an eternity of unspeakable torture on his whim)
ReplyDeleteanyway...thanks for your kind thoughts
god obviously guides people to the right path, but we should also pray that god guides the people to the right path, because he also listens to prayer
ReplyDeleteJust a quick word on this great subject ! Alcohol formed part of my daily life for several years as well as drugs and debauchery . Since those dark times that i have now made haraam in my life things have only got better , since my conversion Allah as been most merciful and blessed me with wisdom , love and intelligence . For any one interested in some serious thought provocation whether Muslim or non Muslim please google mr magoos upfront news and join the grr rate british debate ... Love and blessings , Inshallah ....
ReplyDeleteGod has blessed you with intelligence? Wow!
DeleteHow did you function before, Anon?
Or has He made you more intelligent? In which case how did you measure your improvement? Did you take an IQ test prior to and then after your conversion?
I'd have thought that believing in an imaginary man in the sky was a sign of impending dementia rather than increased intellectual capacity.
My only comment is to this statement: "and then remember how the style of the Qur'an is supposed to be utterly inimitable and perfect. So perfect and inimitable, in fact, that no-one can write a verse like it. Hmm.... (Sorry - doing a bit of scoffing here myself, I've just realised.). "
ReplyDeleteThe beauty of the Quran is not in the English translation but in the Arabic (the original). When you're done scoffing, please try and come up with something like it and let me know how you managed to do what nobody else has ever managed to do.
And who decides whether or not any attempt to reproduce a verse like the ones in the Koran are successful?
ReplyDeleteAh...Muslim "scholars".
http://quransmessage.com/articles/produce%20a%20surah%20FM3.htm
Deletemuhammad once drank for 3 days straight, so bottoms up brothers, lol
ReplyDeleteGod is perfect he makes no mistakes, people who use other books are committing shirk and worshipping men.
ReplyDeletehttp://quransmessage.com/articles/intoxication%20FM3.htm
ReplyDeleteI wonder how you came to these conclusions , When the verse is speaking explicitly about "Honey" , how you bring in alcohol ? . do you think that as a muslim and as a native arabic speaker I would listen to someone like you. For god sake man, make a blog about anything else.
ReplyDeleteHey infidel! We dont need christian zionists like you to attackthe quran without any proof!
ReplyDelete