Friday, February 28, 2014

Qur'an Project - Dung beetles prove God exists (no really...)

I thought I'd run out of things to say regarding the idiocy of the miracle seekers at iERA and their acolytes. And then they go and produce something like this. Damn you fellas! How can I resist when you make it all so very tempting...?!

Under the striking (when are they ever anything but?) heading: New BBC article affirms ayat in the Quran the author explains how, once again, modern scientific discoveries are confirming the wisdom of the Qur'an. This time the lowly dung beetle takes centre-stage in a piece of wishful thinking that would make a school-girl at a wedding fair blush. 

Here's the ayat in question:
 "And  it  is  He  who  placed  for  you  the  stars  that  you  may  be  guided  by  them  through  the darknesses  of  the  land  and  sea.  We  have  detailed  the  signs  for  a  people  who  know". [al-An'am 6:97]

I know, I know..."Where are the dung beetles?" I hear you ask. Patience my children. All will be revealed. Now to those of us who find it difficult to discern Allah's signs in this sort of thing (because we're obviously a bit dense) it is clear that Muhammad, being a seasoned trader and traveler and lacking a sat-nav, knew how to navigate by the stars and believed that God had thoughtfully arranged them thus. If you want to see God's hand in the firmament, I'm not going to stop you. 

Ok - now here come the dung beetles...
Consider this ayat:
"And  there  is  no  creature  on  [or  within]  the  earth  or  bird  that  flies  with  its  wings  except [that  they  are]  communities  like  you" [al-An'am 6:38]
which is introduced with the explanatory phrase: Behavioural Patterns of Species are like Humans

Can you begin to see where this is headed? Our author is keen to suggest that in reality there is little difference between humans and dung beetles (as far as behavioural patterns are concerned) We'll speak for yourself, A.B. al-Mehri [Official/QP], but I can tell you unequivocally that my life does not consist of rolling huge balls of sh*t around. (Although as a  metaphor for what keeps the chaps at iERA busy during their working week it is too good, perhaps, to pass over...) Our author, A.B. al-Mehri [Official/QP], elucidates thus: - Here The Creator informs us  that the community structure and behavioural patterns of every single set of species in existence [as Allah [swt] does not exclude any] is similar to how we as human beings are -  some of us live as married couples, single parents, groups of small family, large tribes, etc you see this amongst the various manifestations in species on land, sea and air.
From the above it is clear that Allah intends us to surmise that given i. humans use the stars to navigate and ii. all species behave like humans THEN dung beetles must use stars to navigate. That is clear... isn't itA.B. al-Mehri [Official/QP] is certainly in no doubt. 
Here's how he introduces the BBC article: Now with these reflections from the blessed Ayat of the Qur'an - read the full article below - 

Oh sorry, almost forgot. HERE come the dung beetles...
Dung Beetles guided by Milky WayBy Jonathan Amos - 24 January 2013 -  They may be down in the dirt but it seems dung beetles also have their eyes on the stars.Scientists have shown how the insects will use the Milky Way to orientate themselves as they roll their balls of muck along the ground...

Do you know, sometimes I almost wish Allah did exist so that He could ask these chaps what they actually thought they were doing. 
I imagine the conversation going something like this...
Allah: Well, A.B. al-Mehri [Official/QP], pleased as I am that you devoted your life to studying my final revelation and all that, I'm afraid I've got some bad news for you. You've been spreading b*ll*cks in my name, and publishing drivel that a twelve year-old would be embarrassed to call his own and thus have brought My name and that of Islam into disrepute. As such I have no option but to cast you forever into the fiery pit.
A. B Mehri[Official/QP]: But Oh He that is most Merciful, can't you show me a bit of er...mercy?
Allah: No - s*d off!


  1. Good to see you back and posting Spinoza!

  2. Congratulations -

    1. Congrats Spinoza, both on your phenominal site visits and helping transform a major portion of the UK dawah scene for the better (in due course, with some luck). Congrats also to all the others whose work contributed to this effect on iERA's thinking (if we can credit iERA with that verb).


    1. Refuted here -

  4. This site and people commentig on it are ridiculous. Why dont you try debating with some serious scholars, people who studied Quran with these articles?It is ease to fool people with average knowledge of Islam.But your knowledge is, from what i can see, below average if you have any. you ask of people to read your posts openly but it is clear that you yourself are not open about it.

    1. For you to conclude that the writer's knowledge about Islam is 'below average', you yourself must have 'above average' knowledge on Islam. The best thing to do is to refute the writer's opinion, instead of directing him to chase any random 'serious scholars'. Lets face it, if he discuss with an Iranian Ayatollah, then the sunnis will say the Ayatollah is wrong. Even among sunnis, you have Ashary, Wahaby, Maturidi, Sufi, who among themselves work day and night to discredit each other.
      Furthermore, based on what the writer presented here, its difficult to label him/her, an outright ignorant. He clearly does his research. If he is wrong and under-informed, you as a person with 'above average' knowledge have the responsibility as a Muslim (assuming you are a muslim) to correct him and bring him to the 'right path'.


  5. First of all: I'm sorry for my bad English.

    As a born Muslim that is only recently practicing religion I call all Muslims (or searching to be Muslims) to reflect about visiting this site and most of all in engaging on discussions in the comments. Why? It's true that Islam asks you to Read, Instruct yourself, etc. but the premise of this website is to persuade against Muslim converts. So it uses classic media strategies of selecting specific out of context information to mislead. Also: your not going to be able to make the author of the website change his mind. He would just search for something else because he's not looking to convert or search the truth. His only mission is to prevent people becoming Muslims. So.. Engaging in a discussion you'll never win will lead to frustration and that is a bad feeling. Quran says a lot of times to not engage on this.

    Again I say: one thing is to debate about something.. But on this specific matter you'll win nothing because the guy will not change his mind because that's not what he is looking for.

    Sura 18:54: "And We have certainly diversified in this Qur'an for the people from every [kind of] example; but man has ever been, most of anything, [prone to] dispute."

    18:56: "And We send not the messengers except as bringers of good tidings and warners. And those who disbelieve dispute by [using] falsehood to [attempt to] invalidate thereby the truth and have taken My verses, and that of which they are warned, in ridicule."

    Now, I can tell you this: search in your heart. If you really want salvation without hypocrisy there is a lot of irrefutable signs in Quran for the people of knowledge. Read, for example Sura 21. Here:

    21:30: "Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?"

    How could Mohammad know by the time that every living thing were created from water?! Science has proven atmosphere and earth were a joined entity.. For those who are truly seeking for truth google it.

    21:31: "And We placed within the earth firmly set mountains, lest it should shift with them, and We made therein [mountain] passes [as] roads that they might be guided."

    It has also been proved mountains are even longer downwards placed like stakes so tectonic plaques would not move (more than they do).

    21:32: "And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away."

    Everyone know that atmosphere protects us. When asteroids and other outer space objects come to collide with us it's destroyed by our atmosphere before entering. How could he know something like that!?

    21:33: "And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming."

    I know for sure humanity has observed the universe from a long time ago. But talking about orbits and stuff? Wow...

    Also: this verses are consecutive. It's a clear sign. Not coincidently put together.

    In Islam we recognize every prophet. We don't believe in multiple religions but in only One. We believe in Moses, Noah, Jesus, Joseph, Mohammad, etc etc. Don't you think that Allah (S.W) intended only one religion? Also, in every religion(Christianity, Judaism, Islam) Allah asks you to pray and give zakat (money for people in need, etc). In Islam you don't need obligatory to give it to a religious leader but you could give it to whatever people you want and no one should know this.

    What I'm trying to say: the only religion that is not a business to this day is Islam. In Islam we don't want your money. We don't want a f... from you.

    Follow your heart. If you believe God exists.. Are you not going to prostrate? . Allah truly is the most Merciful.

    Don't keep engaging in discussion with those who are astray once you know for sure they're only intention is to astray.

    1. I want to correct something in my last comment: forget about the examples I gave of Quran's ayat in relationship with science.. because 1) they could be proven wrong (in the human interpretation with science) and 2) we should learn to read the Quran by heart (self interpretation).. In times of the Prophet (PUH) people didn't do this interpretation (I'm guessing) and they didn't need to.

      As I often tell my non-Muslim mates: Quran is a safe bet. Let's imagine just for a second Mr Spinoza that God didn't exist. What would you lose following Islam (or Christianity/Judaism)? Nothing. Yes.. you would stop doing some things that are awesome (dunya speaking) like fornication, drugs, alcohol, robbing (why not? xD), etc.. but not-doing the bad dunya related stuff isn't wrong even not relating it with Religion.

      Not Killing, Not Robbing, Not fornicating, Not wrong-doing is GOOD for society. Religion aside I don't think someone could argue this. So.. any religion that can make humans be in correct behavior is better than nothing I think (some extremist would maybe disagree.. but that's Ok. Everyone can have an opinion).

      So.. If God don't exist then there's no harm done following Islam (actually, is better).

      Now.. let's suppose for a second Mr. Spinoza that Allah (SW) in fact exists (an I'm sure by heart He does): What would you lose following Islam? If you die and He exists what would be of you? Allah knows best. Really we believe he is the most Merciful..

      If Allah didn't exist and you Follow Islam.. then you die and nothing happens... nothing to lose following.. but if you don't follow Islam and God exists.. then.. wow.. bad choice isn't it? Do you like to Gamble? Anyhow: Allah (SW) is a safe bet. A winner.

      Going back to really basic philosophy: Humanity are the only living creature that amuses about they're own existence. SubhannAllah.. For those who love to do sujud really this website do nothing but INCREASE faith.

      All I can say to you is thank you for allowing pro-Muslim comments on your site. Even though I don't believe you're a simple "Atheist". You don't attack all Religions, just one. And indeed you may hold to whatever idea your holding with the hope the promise of Allah won't touch you.. but be Pacient that Allah and Muslims are Pacient too.

      May Allah forgive you. May Allah open your heart.

    2. Some problems faced by Muslims trying to follow Islam to the dot:

      1. In Islam, it is sinful to consider something haraam as halal and something halal as haraam, as mentioned in the Quran (Al Maidah 5:87 "O you who have believed, do not prohibit the good things which Allah has made lawful to you and do not transgress. Indeed, Allah does not like transgressors". What should a muslim's attitude be towards slavery? Slavery is not haraam in Islam.Yet today i think all Islamic countries outlaws slavery. Are all muslims sinning as long as the law forbidding slavery exists?

      2. Hudud, Qisas & Diyya: The law concerning adultery, looting, apostasy and murder are outlined clearly in the Quran (e.g. Surah Al-Baqarah 2:178, An Nur 24:2, Al Maidah 5:38, plus many other parts in the Quran). How far has this laws being implemented in muslim countries? what about muslims living as minority? are they constantly sinning for not having these laws guiding them? should they move to Saudi Arabia or Pakistan to please the Quranic orders?

      3. Family laws, especially concerning the rights of women. Right to divorce only given to men (although there is Fasakh i.e. request to annul the marriage via a qadhi, many cases proves problematic for women as men find ways to complicate procedures). Women has no right in Islam to stop their husbands from going into 2nd, 3rd, or 4th marriage (although some muslim countries include this as a pre-condition. However this goes back to making a halal thing haraam, or at least difficult). Muslims always argue that Islam improves the lives of women. Yes, it improves the lives of women compared to those practiced during the Jahiliyyah Arab times. Then it stops to evolve with time, and it has been over 1400 years now.

      4. Islamic financing: this industry came about on the premise that 'interest is haraam in Islam'. Those who give out loans, should not ask the borrower to pay more than what they borrow. So now instead of calling it 'interest', islamic finance calls it 'profit of selling', or 'keeping charge' (in the case of pawning). In some cases, the cost to opt for islamic financing is higher than that of convensional. Clearly this goes against the spirit of the order by god and Prophet Muhammad.

      Lets stop there.

      For rationalist, the solution is always simple - do good. Rasionalist don't need to have god telling them not to kill people for them not to kill people. We know killing people, and stealing people's stuff, is bad. On the other hand, we also know that its OK for women to drive. But it takes some Ulama' in Saudi to tell people that women should not drive.

      Doing good just to have a save bet in the afterlife is just pure selfish. We should do good for the sake of goodness, not so that we can live with beautiful women and drink from wine rivers in the afterlife.


    3. Talel says:
      "...we should learn to read the Quran by heart (self interpretation).."

      Really? No. Muslims are not allowed to interpret Quran by themsleves. Only those trained to do so, can. They are the Tafseer Ulama's. Famous interpretors such as Syed Qutb, Ibn Kathir, Al Qurtubi, are those refereed to by todays ulama's. Some muslim sister from Saudi Arabia can't go around without hijab saying that that is how she interpret the Quran, without being prosecuted, or can she?


    4. Oh dear Talel where do we start with your very silly infantile comments? I found the "mountains stakes" assertion actually made me laugh out loud. Then it made me sad that your education is so poor. You have a computer so I suggest you check your science "facts" via the magic wizard Google.

    5. Talel you have replied with a ham fisted version of Pascals Wager which I assume you copied and pasted from some Islamic Q&A forum although I don't think you realise what you have done.. So again Talel I suggest you use Google to find out.

      What I will say is if there is no Allah then quite apart from all those hours wasted praying and fasting, I've missed out what makes our only life fun.