tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post2238688750122004325..comments2023-11-23T18:05:15.094+00:00Comments on Rational Islam? - Letters to a Muslim: Slavery - an unfair criticism of the Qur'an?Spinozahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06059865902367641577noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-80878425361286937202014-09-11T22:15:36.094+01:002014-09-11T22:15:36.094+01:00No understanding muslim will say that all forms of...No understanding muslim will say that all forms of slavery are completely abolished or that slavery itself is abolished. Slavery is usually justified in the context of war. Here, we talk about prisoners of war. And as prisoners of war, they have to work and are hence slaves. Although slaves at the time of the prophet were given wages. Working POW's are common as in WW2. These slaves must also be treated with respect and must not be punished as mentioned in various hadiths in Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawood etc. <br /><br />You mention that the Roman Empire allows slaves to pay for their freedom. But you have failed to mention that the Quran also allows this, and states it clearly. And how does slaves buying their freedom have anything to do with how poorly slaves were treated by their masters? <br /><br />The Quran does not need to abolish slavery in general. It has not only commanded fair treatment towards slaves, but it has also created a great reward in freeing slaves. Therefore it has effectively denounced slavery as we know it. There are no chains or whips involved. There is no starvation or harsh labour conditions involved. Slaves can even take their masters to court to be judged impartially under sharia law. There is even encouragement not to own slaves, but to free them. This can be seen when the prophets daughter Fatima requested one, but the prophet said that to recite the words of Allah (and fear him) would be better for her.<br /><br />Although you try to attack Islam and sometimes try to pass of your own opinions as facts, I do agree with some things you say and your input on matters are valuable as they allow muslims like myself to research and understand certain aspects of Islam better. But, that being said, I can't take your articles seriously or have much respect for them because they are so biased and lack thorough research, which often leads to mistakes in interpretation or context. We must understand the context of the Qurans setting and the prophets teachings as to why Slavery could not be abolished but was rather frowned upon and reformed. As a famous English judiciary once said: “We must not look at the 1947 incident with 1954 spectacles.” Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-58814257592129122542013-07-17T14:45:16.500+01:002013-07-17T14:45:16.500+01:00wat does it mean nd it does not behove a believer ...wat does it mean nd it does not behove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake, and whoever kills a believer by mistake, he should free a believing slave, and blood-money should be paid.<br /><br /><br />and wat bout non beliver who are slaveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-15353033192866316562013-06-05T17:41:22.395+01:002013-06-05T17:41:22.395+01:00DECLARE the Islam Saga and Terrorism: A Must Read ...DECLARE the Islam Saga and Terrorism: A Must Read for every Muslim, Christian & Jew<br />• Absolutely brilliant & truly powerful<br />• ISBN-10: 1490321039 <br />• ISBN-13: 978-1490321035<br />• Kindle Edition ASIN: B00D54JM6G<br /><br />The increase in terrorism activities, especially among wayward followers of the Islamic faith, is likely to create much disturbance and skepticism with adherents of other faiths, such as Christianity, Judaism, other religious sects, and non-religious persons alike. However, the emphasis on these three Middle Eastern religious groups is pertinent to the long history they share. One could say that the three religions are connected spiritually and geographically and are extensions of each other. Judaism preceded Christianity by 1,000 years, and Christianity preceded Islam by five to six centuries. But they were all started by the same set of folks. Notwithstanding, animosities always exist between these groups and although Jews and Christians have been striving to work together, Muslims seem less likely inclined to participate in this accord. Yet their errant members lead in what may be termed as anti-religious activities and often hurtful and perverse acts. How should we view these occurrences? What relationships should be encouraged and strengthened? Are there possibilities for harmonious relationships among these three prominent groups, and if so when? Thought provoking as these may be, they are fundamental bases for advancing a civilization that must contend with these three religious bodies in addition to the many other faiths that exist. Nevertheless, Muslims at the moment seems to be the news makers and their actions may deserve scrutiny for comprehension in order to effect collaboration, cooperation, and tolerance where appropriate. The perspectives may vary but the contemporary outlook is clear. Something has to be done. Selah!<br /><br /><a href="http://www.amazon.com/DECLARE-Islam-Saga-Terrorism-Christian/dp/1490321039/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370302109&sr=8-1&keywords=the+islam+saga+and+terrorism" rel="nofollow">DECLARE the Islam Saga and Terrorism: A Must Read for every Muslim, Christian & Jew</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.amazon.com/DECLARE-Islam-Saga-Terrorism-Christian/dp/1490321039/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370302109&sr=8-1&keywords=the+islam+saga+and+terrorism" rel="nofollow">DECLARE the Islam Saga and Terrorism: Kindle Edition</a><br />Authoritative Advice Cornerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06476284393805994199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-46382709520627731222013-04-06T20:15:37.594+01:002013-04-06T20:15:37.594+01:00Anon says, "The continual freeing of slaves w...Anon says, "The continual freeing of slaves would eventually result in its eradication"<br /><br />Yeah. That explains why the Islamic Slave trade went on for for 14 centuries. The ottoman empire in the 19th century would not even have outlawed if it weren't for the pressure from Britian (who abolished it with the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833). If you do not know anything about History, why talk about it?<br /><br />On top of that Muhammad never prohibited slavery. The manumission of slaves was a form of a paying a fine. In other words, the law was trying to deter citizens with the thought of losing their slaves (much like the thought of losing money or gold). You wouldn't argue that fines are practiced to get rid of money; so please be consistent in the case of your prophet as well. He is paradoxically enforcing slavery. <br /><br />P.S. Btw, Gregory of Nyssa in the 4th century CE was the first abolitionist to condemn slavery on the basis of Human Equality. Way better than Muhammad.CaptainDisguisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00426652177631313145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-29458040002498422992013-04-06T20:06:23.388+01:002013-04-06T20:06:23.388+01:00Any muslims who thinks Islam prohibited slavery is...Any muslims who thinks Islam prohibited slavery is is ignorant as one gets. For a scholarly overview of Slavery within Islam, consult this paper (authored by Bernard Freamon, a Professor of Islamic Law and History who is also a Muslim);<br /><br />http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1564321CaptainDisguisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00426652177631313145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-60675757021029567612013-04-04T14:58:12.953+01:002013-04-04T14:58:12.953+01:00Anon, Let me just pick apart the two verses you qu...Anon, Let me just pick apart the two verses you quoted:<br /><br />Q.4:92 <br />Essentially what this verse is saying is that should a Muslim kill a fellow Muslim by mistake, manslaughter, the convicted Muslim should free one of his slaves as the punishment.<br />Firstly this is hardly an incentive to free slaves, and also note that the key characteristic of the slave being freed is that he/she must be Muslim. Therefore an unbelieving slave has no such avenue for freedom. Also Muhammad assumes that Muslims own slaves as a matter of course and slavery was legal, otherwise institutionalising such a penalty for such a severe crime would be pointless.<br /><br /><br />Q.24:33<br />It should be noted that at the time of this revelation, Muhammad and the Muslims were conquering many Jewish and Pagan tribes in Arabia. As the verse says to the slave master, ‘give of the wealth Allah has given you’. The wealth that Allah had given to the Muslims was the booty they obtained from holy war, Jihad. Hence a surplus of slaves would have been expected and therefore became an excess commodity from which a select few could be freed. This was beneficial to increasing the Ummah of Islam.<br /><br />So Muhammad's decree of freeing slaves who had accepted Islam, who were good and who could afford an agreed sum, resulted in the Muslim community becoming larger, one of the goals of Muhammad. <br /><br />So to replenish stocks Muhammad had revelations from Allah permitting continued enslavement of peoples. So contrary to ending slavery, verses recommending manumission of slaves only perpetuated its practice throughout history.<br /><br />Q.33:50 - O Prophet! We have made lawful to you your wives and those whom your right hand possesses (slaves) out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war...<br /><br />The above verse indicates that prisoners of war were to become your slaves and you had a lawful right to sex with them just as you do with your wives<br /><br />Azim<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-45993578296364245092013-04-04T09:36:25.034+01:002013-04-04T09:36:25.034+01:00you don't answer any of the points made by spi...you don't answer any of the points made by spinoza in his post. You just quote two verses which are hardly unambiguous in their outlawing or even disapproval of slavery. Your first verse even stresses that you should free a slave ONLY if he/she is a believer!<br />So it's all right to enslave those who don't believe in Allah.<br />RichARDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-83827266894432862502013-04-03T22:23:43.345+01:002013-04-03T22:23:43.345+01:00The Koran is the first major scripture to recommen...The Koran is the first major scripture to recommend the freeing of slaves. Here are two such verses:<br /><br />Q.4:92 And it does not behove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake, and whoever kills a believer by mistake, he should free a believing slave, and blood-money should be paid.<br /><br />Q.24:33 ...And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among your slaves, give them the deed (to earn their freedom for a certain sum), if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution.<br /><br />The second verse even recommends the sharing of your wealth with the slaves you have freed. It even warns against the using of slave girls as prostitutes to make money.<br /><br />The continual freeing of slaves would eventually result in its eradication.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com