tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post1077555619513992184..comments2023-11-23T18:05:15.094+00:00Comments on Rational Islam? - Letters to a Muslim: The Developing Human - Keith Moore's "gift" to humanitySpinozahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06059865902367641577noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-37520724543663345602015-01-05T14:50:15.880+00:002015-01-05T14:50:15.880+00:00Prof. Keith L. Moore said:
As far as it is known ...Prof. Keith L. Moore said:<br /><br />As far as it is known from the history of embryology, little was known about the staging and classification of human embryos until the twentieth century. For this reason, the descriptions of the human embryo in the Quran cannot be based on scientific knowledge in the seventh century. The only reasonable conclusion is: these descriptions were revealed to Muhammad (pbuh) from God. He could not have known such details because he was an illiterate man with absolutely no scientific training.” <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-42135671541727623432014-06-09T00:02:05.965+01:002014-06-09T00:02:05.965+01:00He does not expect you to believe not has he the p...He does not expect you to believe not has he the power to make you believe. On the other hand, you are making tremendous efforts to make other people not to believe. So I can say as well : don't expect true believers to be influenced by your (missing) arguments.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03712043483876523200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-9576261158157534212014-04-01T12:33:27.445+01:002014-04-01T12:33:27.445+01:00Well if you want to see a refutation of Quran embr...Well if you want to see a refutation of Quran embryology looking at the Arabic words, just take a look at the recent paper here <a href="http://embryologyinthequran.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Embryology in the Quran: Much ado about nothing</a><br /><br />This paper led to Hamza Tzortzis withdrawing his own paper promoting the Islamic embryology claims as you can see on his website. Only difference with what you said is that you think the "secure place" means egg, whereas most Muslims think it means the womb. Just shows how ambiguous it is. When you don't really know what you're pretending to know, be ambiguous. That's what we see in the Quran.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-83690003374453742672014-03-27T02:33:34.121+00:002014-03-27T02:33:34.121+00:00'lodged in a secure place [egg] then made in...'lodged in a secure place [egg] then made into a alaqaa [blastocyst] a thing that clings....then into chewed flesh [somites on the back look like teeth marks] then bones and skin....[quran].....stages fit perfectly with dr moore's conclusions....but dr moore used a microscope....the time of quran had no such microscope....leaving us with a problem the insertion of sperm into the egg and the alaqaa [thing that clings] are to small to see with the naked eye....so you attack the author dr moore insteadAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03261242575579532395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-36946280923304009272013-12-20T22:23:31.395+00:002013-12-20T22:23:31.395+00:00The qur'an is authentic from God without any d...The qur'an is authentic from God without any doubt and is the only unabridged religious book on the phase of the earth, it is said in the qur'an that if anyone doubts the authenticity of the qur'an then he/she should produce a book similar to it and which no body has done it and no one can do it....! And if you think it is written by man then you should produce a book similar to it or even a verse similar to a verse in thw qur'an. The qur'an is far beyond Human capability. And coming to your second statement you should check, the book it is co-written by keith moore without his approval no word can be added to it. And lastly may almighty Allah guide you to the right pathibrahim Musa Ibrahimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-39646410768408569992013-03-28T10:22:19.845+00:002013-03-28T10:22:19.845+00:00Hi Curious,
Thanks for your comment.
1. How can on...Hi Curious,<br />Thanks for your comment.<br />1. How can one argue the Qur'an is truly "authentic" - in what sense authentic?<br />2. Moore didn't write the additions - al Zindani did.<br />3. what other religions find in their texts is of no interest to me because I believe they are all products of MAN'S desire to make sense of a senseless world.Spinozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06059865902367641577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-74105883934172718612013-03-22T17:32:17.234+00:002013-03-22T17:32:17.234+00:00*sigh* atleast one can "argue" that the ...*sigh* atleast one can "argue" that the Quran is TRULY authentic,how exactly do the christians,hindus and miscellaneous groups validate the discrepancies found in their religious documents?Being a med student i KNOW that Keith L.Moore is regarded as a premiere embroyologist and if he found something that could be validated in the religious book of another faith then i believe that's a *win* for the muslims!can any other religion boast of having come close to making even 'slightly' comprehensible scientific predictions?and if other religions have made accurate predictions in the scientific sense i would be sincerely very happy if you could expand my knowledge!curioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02251557844612615349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-85704060514532511272013-01-24T18:32:05.048+00:002013-01-24T18:32:05.048+00:00Hi Anon - thanks for your lengthy comment.
1. You...Hi Anon - thanks for your lengthy comment. <br />1. You say the science is unimportant and then say that you "fully support that the Qur'an is a scientific miracle". You can't have it both ways. If you think the Qur'an is a scientific miracle then I'm afraid I shall feel obliged to explain why in my view it isn't.<br />2. You claim the Qur'an is a literary miracle and further that it would be impossible for an illiterate man to produce its like. Why to you conflate the ability to read/write and poetic skill? Many, if not most, Arabic poets of the period recited their works from memory - as I'm sure you know. Poems and songs were passed from person to person without being written down. Isn't it arrogant to assume that those who don't read and write are incapable of poetry? Thus the fact that the Qur'an is easy to remember is not a sign of its divine origin but rather that its a typical product of its time and place.<br />Muhammad may have been regarded as trustworthy. Why that does negate the possibility of his being sincerely mistaken (see my latest post). The vast majority of those who claim to hear voices are sincere in their delusions. <br />You discount the possibility that Muhammad enjoyed the riches or power or sex that his "prophet-hood" bought him and yet he was keen to include "revelations" that ensured he got the spoils of war, wasn't he? If he was so unconcerned with money why would he/God give us 8:1?<br />You say he "denied" (by which I assume you mean refused) money sex and power. I see no evidence for that. In fact I see the exact opposite.<br />Why is it any concern of mine whether people are Muslim, Christian or Jew. It isn't. |Or at least it wouldn't be IF Muslims didn't insist that Islam should rule the world and if there wasn't the likes of iERA and Yusuf Estes and Deedat lying to vulnerable people like my friend to convince them to follow a religion that is homophobic, sexist, misogynistic and anti-science (please don't quote Islam's Golden AGe if you are then going to deny the fact of evolution)<br />You say atheists are having a depressing life. What arrogance again! I live everyday wondering at the beauty of existence and savouring every moment because I know how unlikely is my birth and how little time we have to enjoy it all. I don't live in fear and trembling of a jealous hateful God who promises to burn the skin off my back for an eternity if i should have the "misfortune" to be born gay or with the intellectual curiosity to question the idiocies contained in the holy books.<br />Plety more to say but I'll save it for another time.Spinozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06059865902367641577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-78502552067473754862013-01-24T16:41:40.734+00:002013-01-24T16:41:40.734+00:00Hi Anon
The only comments EVER removed on this sit...Hi Anon<br />The only comments EVER removed on this site are spam.<br />I have started to approve comments because of the above.<br />Please feel free to say anything and I promise I'll publish (as long as it's not advertising or designed to incite hatred.<br />Yours,<br />Spinoza<br />Spinozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06059865902367641577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-60011275180142260132013-01-24T16:04:41.881+00:002013-01-24T16:04:41.881+00:00And it seems very suspicious you have to approve s...And it seems very suspicious you have to approve some comments, and remove others. Really, there has been no one who has got anything actually sensible to say against the Qur'an. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-88972211744454608252013-01-24T16:03:33.714+00:002013-01-24T16:03:33.714+00:00Peace. I would just like to point out that, first ...Peace. I would just like to point out that, first of all, you haven't really disproved anything. And you do realize of course, as you seem to be an Islamic scholar, that Science isn't the only way that the Qur'an is proved. I mean, you're going on trying to disprove of the scientific miracles of the Qur'an, yet I really don't think Science was of concern of an illiterate man, with no education yet very wise and always been religious. I don't know of any Arab at the his (Muhammad pbuh) time that converted due to Science. Do you know Arabic? I fully support that the Qur'an is a scientific miracle, but it's also a miracle linguistically. Know the 2nd Khalifa? Omar ibn Al-Khattab? Huge enemy to Islam before he converted. Tortured the muslims. As soon as he picked up a page of the Qur'an, and read, it was instant. An illiterate man, never had anything to do with poetry, somehow had put up the best literature the Arabs had ever seen and until now the same, and forever, it'll be the same. <br />The Qur'an could also be proved by his pbuh's character. Known as As-Sadiq "the honest", Al-Ameen "the trustworthy". Then, for some reason, he became the biggest liar history's ever seen? What could that possibly be for? Money? He denied that. In fact, he was pretty poor. Women? He denied that when one of the most persistent disbelievers offered him that. Leadership? Denied that. How about the uncle that he really loved but didn't accept Islam when he (Abu Talib) adviced him, urging him to give up the message, Muhammad pbuh said," If you were to give me the sun in my right hand, and the moon in my left hand, I wouldn't give up the message." How about during war, did he just let his people fight while he stayed back to relax? Or did he stand in the front line, and his companions would in fact, when the battle was really rough, would go behind him to seek refuge. How about all his prophecies? You should really look them up. Did he practice what he preached? His wife Aisha ra said he was a walking Qur'an. What exactly was the problem with his pbuh's message though that you have a problem with? In fact, why is it of any concern for you whether people are muslims, Christians, jews, whatever, you obviously have got a really nothing to look forward to nor is any of this a concern to you. Actually, I wonder, what atheists like you look forward to. To me, atheists seem to be having a really depressing life, and they're probably the most miserable about death.<br />In this article, all you did was destroy the character, but didn't at all refute the thing you were originally trying to. Give the problem with the embryology mentioned in the Ayat. In the article about mountains being pegs, didn't really seem to be disproving anything. The seven heavens, you tried to attack it by saying that the heavens were also like the earth's crust; in the ayah, the word for like is "mithl", which is nearly like/somewhat/in some way like. I mean, there is so much you avoided, yet you act like you've got it all taken care of. And you seem to ignore the many opinion of so many other scholars who are against what you're saying. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-48865770138730269362012-12-30T11:13:39.902+00:002012-12-30T11:13:39.902+00:00St. Louis university is a jesuit founded universit...St. Louis university is a jesuit founded university, by your "rationality" any scholarship coming of there is tainted by christianity. It's a retarded argumentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-17525036755876620452012-10-05T12:57:34.945+01:002012-10-05T12:57:34.945+01:00@Haani, actually the lungs and other air-filled ca...@Haani, actually the lungs and other air-filled cavities (middle ear, nasal sinuses, abdomen; all these are inter-connected) actually EXPAND and not constrict, by Boyle's Law-- Pressure is inversely proportional to Volume.<br />See this link--<br />http://www.pilotfriend.com/aeromed/medical/ascent_descent.htm<br />And yes, there are tall mountains in and around Arabia, the Arabs even before Muhammad would have attempted to climb these mountains and would have experienced the effects of low atmospheric pressure. In fact, any climb up a hill can make one feel short of breath, and make one feel winded and breathless.Varmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07247099642223986449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-49747634476564605052012-10-04T16:02:13.177+01:002012-10-04T16:02:13.177+01:00I have thought about it, Haani.
This refers to how...I have thought about it, Haani.<br />This refers to how one feels short of breath if one climbs a mountain quickly.<br />If you wish to interpret this as miraculous knowledge then that's up to you, but please don't expect the rest of us to base our belief system on such flimsy evidence.Spinozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06059865902367641577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-77472890856236932062012-10-04T15:59:01.555+01:002012-10-04T15:59:01.555+01:00@Varma,
Every messenger of God was sent with Islam...@Varma,<br />Every messenger of God was sent with Islam to his people with miracles to prove that he was sent by God. When people went astray from the true religion of God, He sent another messenger.<br />Because we did not live in the time of the messengers of God (Moses, Jesus, etc, Peace Be Upon Them), some may claim they did not do the miracles they did, or even they did not really exist!<br /><br />In the case of the last messenger of God, Mohammad PBUH, he was given many miracles that people saw in his time, but he was also given a timeless miracle that everybody can examine till the end of days. Which is the Quran.<br />It is available online, and you can read it and examine it yourself.<br /><br />Here's an example of the many things that you may notice (not mentioned in the above link). The following 5 verses are from Sura Al-Anaam (The Cattle chapter) so you can get the context, but what I'm pointing to is in the 4th verse(125):<br /><br />And is one who was dead and We gave him life and made for him light by which to walk among the people like one who is in darkness, never to emerge therefrom? Thus it has been made pleasing to the disbelievers that which they were doing.(122)<br /><br />And thus We have placed within every city the greatest of its criminals to conspire therein. But they conspire not except against themselves, and they perceive [it] not.(123)<br /><br />And when a sign comes to them, they say, "Never will we believe until we are given like that which was given to the messengers of Allah ." Allah is most knowing of where He places His message. There will afflict those who committed crimes debasement before Allah and severe punishment for what they used to conspire.(124)<br /><br />So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast (chest) to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast (chest) tight and constricted as though he were climbing up fast into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.(125)<br /><br />And this is the path of your Lord, [leading] straight. We have detailed the verses for a people who remember.(126)<br /><br />Now, as you know, the more we go up the less the atmospheric pressure gets. So, what would happen if we manage to go up into the sky fast without pressure normalizing suite or vehicle? The volume of air in our lungs will expand quickly due the fast decrease in pressure, which will make our chests feel tight and narrow. In fact, we won't be able to inhale because air will be flowing out of our lungs, which means there will no oxygen entering our lungs, and that in turn will maximize the constricted feeling in the chest.<br />Add to the fact that the higher you go in the sky, the less oxygen you get, and even if you manage to get a little air into your lungs, which you will not, there will be hardly any oxygen for you to breath!<br /><br />Now,<br />How could Mohammad PBUH, an illiterate man from Arabia, know those facts about atmospheric pressure and oxygen 1450 years ago, and use them in this matter to demonstrate how disbelievers feel about Islam?<br /><br />Think about it! <br />HaaniAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-22042137749287777912012-10-04T15:57:44.165+01:002012-10-04T15:57:44.165+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Spinozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06059865902367641577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-50110212751790794732012-10-03T19:01:03.688+01:002012-10-03T19:01:03.688+01:00@Varma,
Every messenger of God was sent with Islam...@Varma,<br />Every messenger of God was sent with Islam to his people with miracles to prove that he was sent by God. When people went astray from the true religion of God, He sent another messenger.<br />Because we did not live in the time of the messengers of God (Moses, Jesus, etc, Peace Be Upon Them), some may claim they did not do the miracles they did, or even they did not really exist!<br /><br />In the case of the last messenger of God, Mohammad PBUH, he was given many miracles that people saw in his time, but he was also given a timeless miracle that everybody can examine till the end of days. Which is the Quran.<br />It is available online, and you can read it and examine it yourself.<br /><br />Here's an example of the many things that you may notice (not mentioned in the above link). The following 5 verses are from Sura Al-Anaam (The Cattle chapter) so you can get the context, but what I'm pointing to is in the 4th verse(125):<br /><br />And is one who was dead and We gave him life and made for him light by which to walk among the people like one who is in darkness, never to emerge therefrom? Thus it has been made pleasing to the disbelievers that which they were doing.(122)<br /><br />And thus We have placed within every city the greatest of its criminals to conspire therein. But they conspire not except against themselves, and they perceive [it] not.(123)<br /><br />And when a sign comes to them, they say, "Never will we believe until we are given like that which was given to the messengers of Allah ." Allah is most knowing of where He places His message. There will afflict those who committed crimes debasement before Allah and severe punishment for what they used to conspire.(124)<br /><br />So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast (chest) to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast (chest) tight and constricted as though he were climbing up fast into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.(125)<br /><br />And this is the path of your Lord, [leading] straight. We have detailed the verses for a people who remember.(126)<br /><br />Now, as you know, the more we go up the less the atmospheric pressure gets. So, what would happen if we manage to go up into the sky fast without pressure normalizing suite or vehicle? The volume of air in our lungs will expand quickly due the fast decrease in pressure, which will make our chests feel tight and narrow. In fact, we won't be able to inhale because air will be flowing out of our lungs, which means there will no oxygen entering our lungs, and that in turn will maximize the constricted feeling in the chest.<br />Add to the fact that the higher you go in the sky, the less oxygen you get, and even if you manage to get a little air into your lungs, which you will not, there will be hardly any oxygen for you to breath!<br /><br />Now,<br />How could Mohammad PBUH, an illiterate man from Arabia, know those facts about atmospheric pressure and oxygen 1450 years ago, and use them in this matter to demonstrate how disbelievers feel about Islam?<br /><br />Think about it!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121006221811855911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-83794533068141860762012-10-01T16:14:39.708+01:002012-10-01T16:14:39.708+01:00@Haani,
I too have seen your link, and read the or...@Haani,<br />I too have seen your link, and read the original booklet. I have not been convinced at all. In my blog (www.debunkingbucailleism.blogspot.com), I am in the process of "rationalizing" and yes, debunking all the claims in the link you provided. Please visit it too.<br />Regards,<br />VarmaVarmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07247099642223986449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-86170667046786207582012-09-27T21:32:12.685+01:002012-09-27T21:32:12.685+01:00Hi, do please have a read of the refutation of the...Hi, do please have a read of the refutation of the embryology "miracle" here http://embryologyinthequran.blogspot.co.uk/Spinozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06059865902367641577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-32047651939156773182012-09-27T18:29:04.007+01:002012-09-27T18:29:04.007+01:00Sorry, forgot to include the link. Here it is:
htt...Sorry, forgot to include the link. Here it is:<br />http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1.htmAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121006221811855911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-15911414317117980432012-09-27T18:26:40.666+01:002012-09-27T18:26:40.666+01:00So, your only "rational" explanation of ...So, your only "rational" explanation of what was mentioned 1400 years ago and is proved now with microscopes is that Zindani is a "bad guy"! So much for rationalization!! :o)<br />...<br />Please visit the following link, and "rationalize" the other six points mentioned there about mountains, origin of the universe, cerebrum, seas and rivers, deep seas and internal waves, and clouds, by pointing out that people who mentioned them were bad people connected to Osama Bin Ladin!!<br />...<br />Well, you can keep fooling yourself and getting applauded by others who want to fool themselves, but ... you will soon die and you will have to face the truth. It will be too late then though!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121006221811855911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-87004461613184543372012-06-22T17:04:25.288+01:002012-06-22T17:04:25.288+01:00No. There was a verse about stoning adulterers tha...No. There was a verse about stoning adulterers that was eaten by a goat.<br /><br />http://islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=999<br /><br /><br />Did the Umayyad's change the Qur'an?<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKl0gA35HaEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-43945776846161536502012-06-20T14:37:09.859+01:002012-06-20T14:37:09.859+01:00http://www.youtube.com/user/ThisIsTheTruthUncuthttp://www.youtube.com/user/ThisIsTheTruthUncutThisIsTheTruthUncuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07318918022319019742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-43186366205476639702012-06-01T08:25:14.489+01:002012-06-01T08:25:14.489+01:00Thanks for the comments and info, Martin. I shall ...Thanks for the comments and info, Martin. I shall follow up your links.Spinozahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06059865902367641577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3229990984320313018.post-26689818873151782882012-05-31T22:52:10.485+01:002012-05-31T22:52:10.485+01:00Update to the above, I just had a look on Hamza...Update to the above, I just had a look on Hamza's site and he has a new update to his paper (2.1b) in which he has abandoned the male and female nutfah hadith. Credit to him for that, glad to see my persistance paid off. I see he still mistranslates lisan al arab and ibn kathir in the nutfah section though (where his translation says "single drop" and "drop of nutfah", respectively). Oh well, it's good to see that in that section he uses his sources much more faithfully than in early versions at least!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com